Posts by La Capra

7

Stumbling...

by astridkittie in

in another post, someone made a reference to e-watchman's sudden call to duty.

i went to the link provided and when reading the sample letter decided to check out the 11-22-98 issue of the awake mentioned as being "un propaganda".

now... the first time i read this, i was shocked that i had read it before without blinking an eye as a jw.

There are therapists that have experience in working with clients who come from high mind-control backgrounds. I can completely relate to the whole "evil" thing, and the nightmares. For me the word was "horrid" less damning than evil, I'll admit, but pretty tough to bear a life of. This type of self-image is one that just doesn't go away without the help of a professional-particularly when recovery is juxtaposed against a background of subtle, well-developed, constant mind-control that shaped us into knowing that we are really evil (and don't measure up). The WTBTS is a text-book example of how to inculcate blind allegience to a cult. They are expert at it. It may take an expert to heal some people from that.

It takes awhile to "train" a therapist in what it is like being JW. Most people need to be trained in the subtleties of the control, and are shocked by the reality of all the unwritten rules we had to follow. Not many are lucky enough to find an exJW therapist in their neighborhood (like I was)-but that does not mean that a therapist can't become educated. There are links to support groups and therapists at www.freeminds.org that could lead you to referrals in your area.

I tried antidepressants (they worked while I took them), but nothing took the place of really coming to an honest belief (with actual evidence) that I was not horrid, and finding tools for countering the times when the struggle returns. Antidepressants are appropriate to survive rough patches, but if it is the fallout from being a JW that is the ultimate root of a significant portion of the depression, then you will eventually have to confront that with some psychotherapy. It really can work. But it won't be overnight.

Take care, Shoshana

8

Need additional info on JW Dating and Singles page

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

i just put up a new page and if you can please check it out.

it is the result of just checking into this "singles" scene the last couple of days, so i may be missing a lot of what's out there, so if you have any suggestions or links, other sites, etc.

please respond.

La Capra

Hi Randy,

I noticed you left out JWD's own favorite JW dating site JWmatch.com. It appears to be far more committed to keeping non-JWs away, but people from this site seem to have infiltrated that place as well.

Shoshana

13

Money and the Meetings a Problem?

by Blueblades in

jw
friends

.

a friend of ours was told that he/she would be taken off as the beneficiary of a large amount of money unless he/she would come back to the meetings and go out in the field service.. our friend has been fading for quite some time now.the person who put him/her as beneficiary won't have anything to do with him/her unless he/she comes back to the meetings and participates in the field service.. he/she will not be bribed and will lose the large amount of money he/she stands to gain because of refusing to be compromised as to what is known about the society now.. his/her friend only knows that he/she has family and personal concerns as the reason he/she don't go to meetings anymore.letting the friend know the real reasons would certainly be cause for him/her to be removed as the beneficiary of a large amount of money.. our advice to him/her was to be true to ones self even though this would be financially difficult.. the reason we are putting the person as him/her is to protect the identity of the individual friend of ours.. we would appreciate some of your thoughts concerning this matter.. blueblades

La Capra

There is no guarantee that

1) returning to the meetings will mean the would-be beneficiary would be reinstated, or remain as such.

2) the benefactor will maintain obligations keeping in tact the trust, life insurance, will, etc. that would ensure a distribution.

3) the benefactor won't establish the distribution of the contents of the funds through a trust with conditions requiring continued meeting attendance.

4) the benefactor won't threaten to remove the would-be beneficiary for the next manipulative demand.

Try this. "Give me the money now, and then I'll come back." Beneficiary will be told there is no guarantee that he'll continue with meeting attendance. To this beneficiary could say, there's no guarantee that the will won't be changed either.

It would be unfortunate to compromise or sacrifice ones needs on something that has no guarantees on a future payoff based on someone else's generosity, largesse or flat out manipulation. One ought never be cowed by threats to be removed as an heir or beneficiary, because the source of that money is always someone else's hard work, not the beneficiary's. If it's viewed that way, it might be easier to swallow.

People in general would be a lot happier if they kept their eyes on their own papers and forgot about what they may get the easy way. Living by your own rules is better than anything else. I wouldn't waste my time with this relative, she is cruel, manipulative, and should know better, for "Jehovah knows the true heart condition."

Shoshana

13

Are things REALLY getting worse? JWs are so pessimistic...

by somebodylovesme in

one of the things that always puzzled me about the witnesses' doctrine was this idea that we are living in the worst time the world has ever seen - that the twentieth century has surpassed all others in death and destruction.

am i only the only crazy fool who thinks we have it pretty good?.

a hundred years ago, people died from diseases that are easily treated today.

La Capra

I loved when they would come to the door with this spiel-about how bad things were. I set up your exact same examples, somebody, talking about how through the ages the typical human being suffered far more, during a far shorter life, than we do now, even in third world countires, where disease, famine and high death rates are still present.

The fact is that until the 20th century, most people, unless they were sinfully rich, were basically slaves, working their whole lives for basic needs, and not a whole lot more. If they ventured about, they ran a very likely risk of being robbed in their travels, and left for dead. There was never enough food, water or basic shelter and clothing that could be kept clean and comfortable. Most people were governed or ruled by some sort of tyranny, be it a baron, lord, bishop or dictator.

There was far more war and violence as neighboring tribes and ethnic groups battled for land and supremacy-raping and pillaging along the way. Proportionally, far more people died as a result of those fracases than soldiers do now, thanks to modern medicine and nutrition.

No one was educated, and if you were lucky enough to be born a male, then maybe, just maybe, you could get learn to read (if you became a priest or monk).

Most people did not have the basic human rights that we now consider necessities.

The weather and the earthquakes are not more severe than they ever have been.

Well, I must have rattled on like this for several minutes, giving lots of examples of regimes, time periods, and well known brutalities and human injustice. I finally stopped to catch my breath by asking the person who was unlucky enough to ring my doorbell with that presentation whether she really believed that times are worse now than ever. She still did.

So I said this: "Well then, consider this. If it were 2000 years ago and you came up to me trying to convert me, say on some road out of the city, and I wanted to beat you to a bloody pulp, I daresay, not much would happen to me, but you'd have no modern medical care to set your bones, no antibiotics for all you cuts and abrasions, and no one would haul me to jail for assaulting you, would they, afterall you're just a woman...." She looked scared for a second, then realized I was being ironic. She went on to the next door. I bet she used a different spiel there. In fact, I bet she never used the critical-times-hard-to-deal-with spiel ever again.

Shoshana

22

Fruits of the Spirit, which is hardest for you?

by dh in

jw
friends

love, joy, peace, long suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self control.

which do you find most difficult?.

(please correct me if i got them wrong, it's been a while since my mom made me recite them)

La Capra

Up until about a year ago, I was getting pounded by joy-not an easy one. Pouring my heart and soul into law school and making a bit of a success of it helped. One must invest in one's joy, I've discovered...But my next hardest one is kindness, the good news is that as I have begun mastering joy, the kindness seems to be more natural. I still have to remind myself to be kind more often than I am pleased to admit. Joy and Kindness-those are my bears. Shoshana

63

Watchtower study today at meeting

by dustyb in

jw
friends

well, looks like they do have a new date for the conclusion of the end, and that we should "be prepared".

even some people that commented said that 90 years of the 120 years have passed by and we should be prepared for the time at hand.

2034 people, 2034.... i've had enough, i'm talkign to the elder about this one, i don't care if i get labelled or not.

La Capra

This allows a GENUINE and OFFICAL change in a lot of the unwritten "customs" of this cult. This is going to allow the younger ones to go ahead and make a legitimate future for themselves, by going to college, getting careers, buying houses, having families (thus seeding future automatons), and by the time they start getting close to 2057, a whole new set of victims will be ready for the next date 30-40 years out. It's gotta be within adults' lifetimes NOW or it won't pan out. But I can take comfort in knowing I can live a wicked life for another good 25 years, then come 'round, see the light, change my evil ways, (when I'm an old lady and have no more interest in living a "real life" anyway). Cool. I did the right thing sixteen years ago. (not that I had any doubt then, but it is always nice to be right) I wonder how my mom feels about all this. Shoshana

15

Inane question of the year...so far.

by meat pie in

jw
friends

hello everyone, this question was asked of me by a 'tame' jw today, 'have you thought of starting smoking?'.

the question was put as if now that i don't go to meetings any more, i'd want to take up smoking!

as i'm middle-aged and packed in the fags yonks ago, it was especially stupid.my reply was, 'good god no, why would i?'.

La Capra

When I was about 16, one of the old bitties (as opposed to the nice ladies) was trying to make uplifting conversation with me after a Sunday meeting. She was telling me how fortunate (eck-that word) I was to be "raised in the truth" because I was living such morally clean and healthy teenaged years. She openly asserted that if I weren't a witness I would be smoking, drinking, doing drugs and sleeping around. I told her (in an effort to make uplifting ocnversation myself) that I thought it was a misconception that all teenagers were such loose, disgusting things, and that really, the peer pressure was practically non-existent in the classes, and with the kids I knew. I told her that none of the kids I saw at school and visited with were into any of those things, and that most of them would be horrified to know that she thought that they were. I was promptly reported to the elders. They weren't even sure what I had done wrong, so they let me off with a "you should witness to them then, if they are such good kids..." (yeah right, like I want to lose the few friends I did have...) Shoshana

13

I need help with a life changing decision

by Matt_2k in

jw
friends

my family used to be jehovah?s witnesses up until i was about 6 years old, for reasons unknown too me they left.

when the events of september 11th unfolded they started going back to the meetings, myself included.

it started out ok, i was keen to learn, but the more i learnt, the more i realised that a lot of the predictions and teachings did not make sense, so after about 9 months i stopped attending the meetings and eventually stopped being involved all together.

La Capra

Hello Matt-You are in a very difficult position. You are at the age when any teenager would be pushing against parental boundaries, which could be clouding the real issue for you and your family-chalk it up to teenaged angst or apathy, they might be saying. However, this religion is very dangerous and you may be in a position to save your family from a lifetime of distant familial relations with you. I'd suggest a couple of things-first if you haven't already, start reaching out to the adults (maybe your guidance counselor or a favorite teacher) and making other adult connections. If a teenager doesn't have an adult (with "normal" perspective) they can go to for advice on the everyday issues of growing up, they often flounder. Second, find out from your parents why the stopped going to meetings when you were six. If they had good reasons then, those reasons are probably still a problem to them-you will likely find it discussed here, to give you talking points with your parents & a way to start to chip away at their renewed commitment. You are old enough to stand up for your family, and it sounds as though it might be time to do so. Tread lightly and keep us posted. I look forward to a post en titled "Matt saves his family!" Shoshana

26

Well... I'm out of a job... again.

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

everyone in the office was called to a big department meeting... with the exception of me and a few others.

we were called to another meeting.

yeah... i knew something was up.

La Capra

So sorry, this really sucks. I remember some of your posts, even if they can back this up a hundred ways, there is still more than a modicum of impropriety that needs to be accounted for and that you deserve to be compensated for. Wait 'til you have your new job. Then sue them. Check timelines in your state, there may be a really short statute of limitations, if it is handled administratively rather than in the judicial system....do have a quick chat with a lawyer so you will at least know what your options are. But wait til you have your new job. It will come fast, I'm sure of it. Shoshana

38

I'm Home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Yizuman in

jw
friends

finally!

i got a place of my own!

i moved here last week sunday after i saw an ad for an apt for $425.00 p/m w/ all utilities paid!!!

La Capra

YES!!!We should throw Yiz a virtual house-warming. Care to register anywhere Yiz? There's gotta be some odds and ends you need (or want). Congratulations-so many of us were praying for you. I'm glad you're home. Shoshana